No contact request is poping up

yes, but my proposal do not disturb, it is a silent counter so at least users know what is going on, honestly I don’t think hiding the contact request in the menu does any good, it is to annoying having to go there to check (when you realize or remember that this view exists)
I don’t see how it is good that Delta Chat download thousands of(probably unwanted) emails silently filing my storage and costing money(paid network) and while the server storage get full, I think users prefer to be aware of this, so they can take action(ex. block the unwanted contact, spam filtering, etc.)
I don’t use to receive spam, practically all emails on contact request view I had received were wanted emails, and when it was spam, Delta Chat only made me more miserable, since it was downloaded anyway.
My point is: ignoring something doesn’t make it disappear and actually can be worst, it is worst to lose an important message.

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I’m wondering, your response only lists things we agree upon. (Making incoming emails visible, not downloading messages from unknown contacts by default.)

Sure, the counter won’t disturb. I commented only because I thought that you wanted to show new emails in the chat list in the same way as chat messages.

I have nothing against this, it a nice thing if there is not much spam. Opening all emails as chats is one of the use-cases. I’m just saying that the distinction is still necessary for the other use-case (enabled by default) that treats emails differently (silent by default, and hopefully having a visible button with an “unseen” counter in the future).

PS: Is “only download messages from known contacts” already a filed option request?

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sorry if I confused you, hehehe, I(and other people also complain about this since it looks like a misbehaviour sometime working and some time it doesn’t) just desperately need a way to be aware of contact request from classic MUA, I would like to Make Contact Requests more visible but if that is too hard to do, I would

or whatever you can come up to solve this issue of missing contact request, in the beginning the common scenario is: an user installs Delta Chat and all his friends use they classic MUA, compatibility is important.

adb :slight_smile:

Hi @adbenitez
If you would believe me it’s not a mail client, it’s a messenger based on SMTP, you would see, this behaviour ist perect :wink:

Ok, now I understand you have different preferences for the alternatives.
I think only the counter button would be a proper solution.
Unfortunately, the devs had removed the old way last year, before a better solution is in place.

It’s obvious that many users need a way to notice new incoming emails from un-known senders. Whithout allowing every such email to disrupt the user!

I would even prefer not to be interrupted (notified) by (longer) classic emails from known contacts, and think that there should be a better default to handle chats and emails separately (i.e. @r10s, no pop-ups for emails from known contacts, if the user merely configures to have classic emails displayed in a separate list), just list the (longer) classic emails from known contacts silently, as icons within corresponding chats (if existing) and provide that “new email counter button” in the main view to see them all:

And once again, all the options required to solve these use-case problems have been in the wiki for long:

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hahaha, I still think it is just an email client from the future :wink:
and being backguard compatible with the “old software” is important, specially when that “old software” is more used than DC right now

Absolutely. However, the newly introduced default setting “Show emails: No” ( currently breaks the backwards compatibility with the email world for all new installations.

In the past it was still possible to reply to emails from your contacts that don’t have deltachat installed. Even if it was really cumbersome, and needed improvement: One had to find the “contact request” activity and manually monitor the INBOX.

But now, the new default kind of moves deltachat users into their own silo group, because they are not reachable anymore by their known contacts if these send a short email.

The “Start a chat?” prompting could instead default to only appear for reasonably short emails. This would not require the introduction of a “Show emails?” option, and not break the backwards compatibility with the default to ignore all classic emails.

Setting “Show emails: All” is not an alternative either, because it leads to a “Start chat?” prompting marathon for each and every email. Even once this gets fixed:

(For planning and checking consistency: [Wiki] Use-cases, chat rules and configuration options)

had to say I may even consider wise to set “all” as the default email interaction setting, but I don’t like your idea of short messages to determine chats, at all, sorry :frowning:

A default to only show short messages would make it easy to catch short pings, without creating too much noise after configuring an existing email account (while still allowing the user to manually check the full email view for all longer emails, anytime, or to disable the displaying of short emails alltogether). It’s a new mode to the existing options. I consider it as default because it should combine a lower noise level with classic email reachability for really short emails.

If you want to see more or less messages, there are actually considerable other options in the wiki draft.
The current “show emails: no” combines ignoring all emails with wiki option 2.1) Prompt/open tentative chat for all email-chat compliant messages. (Which will need to get separated as soon as spammers use Email-chat.)

Don’t you find the current prompting for “All” tedious? I think manually scrolling through a long list and having an overview is better than getting one prompt after the other.

If you would really want to see every email in deltachat, the wiki suggests to have separate (tentative) chats opened for each email (from [Wiki] Use-cases, chat rules and configuration options):

Chat Approval Mode: “Blacklisting – You may only block individual known contacts, and still see spam.

  • Enable 2.0) “open chat for all messages”. Also allows creating sender specific blacklisting rules.
  • Disable 1) “browse-able New (incoming) Emails” (no need, chats open automatically)

If you only want to see all emails from known contacts (current “Show emails: All”) you may set these two options with:

Chat Approval Mode: “Default – Your email usage automatically approves chat contacts.

I believe you :slight_smile: , when you can select
“Listen for chat-starting messages from? -> Nobody (only manually started chats)”
which means:
Chat Approval Mode: “Whitelisting – Strictly manual addition of chat partners.”

  • Disables 2.1) Prompt/open tentative chat for all email-chat compliant messages .
  • Disables the scanning of messages on IMAP server for newly approved email receivers (MsgSCAN).

(from [Wiki] Use-cases, chat rules and configuration options)

Contact requests view needs some love, I think it is bad as it currently is shown, all messages are there in a mess, imagine if I have a wanted email/contact-request and 1000s of emails unwanted, it will be hard to find the wanted contact request, so what about this:

Lets display contact request more like in social networks, users expect a contact request view to be a list of persons/addresses to be accepted, I think will be better to show the contact requests grouped by contact, something like similar to the chat list, the user can approve them or look into this unapproved chats or swipe them out to delete them or block them, etc.

Sounds like a view for “unapproved contacts”. (May be a separate thing than “Incoming Emails”, but could also be useful, I think.)

If you still don’t feel like liking a default where only short emails (no chat-replies) trigger a “Start chat?” prompt, could please you post any disadvantage you see? (Besides, “you not liking it” and “you having to enable ‘Start chat?’ prompts for full length emails”, of course. :wink: )

The actual Email view (old contact requests) is also a mess because it is not synced with the server… One has to sort and delete the INBOX separately in each deltachat client and on the server (or syncing MUA).

sorry don’t have the time right now for a good reply I will go offline, but I don’t like because it sounds really fuzzy, I don’t think the length of the message is a good way to know if it is a chat or an email, but hey I am not a professional in chats I may be wrong, in my case I want contact request for every single new contact that message me.
See you tomorrow, have a nice day :slight_smile:

That’s good, if the default filtering out of long emails does not work for you, no problem, it should still be possible to enable prompting for all emails (disable the size limit).

It’s just that for those users that chat with an email account that is also used for a lot of regular email conversation that is handled separately (in classic MUAs), not having a (small enough) size limit causes a bothering deltachat experience. (Every email has also to be dismissed in deltachat manually.)

And without a small size allowace, new users are not reachable by short email text messages sent by their known contacts. (i.e. topic “No contact request is poping up.”) And IMHO it is no good idea to require chat users to manually check their “Email” for short chat messages from known contacts.

So it is preferable to have an email size limit for new chat creation as default, to mitigate both problems for new users, while allowing subsequent customization according to the specific situation.

sorry, actually I think we don’t need classic email show as contact request at all if Make Contact Requests more visible is done

Well, with the options from the wiki that allow for full customization (only 4 preferences + 3 feature), if you prefer to customize the preset that is best four you (Listen for “Any contact”) and look at all emails, you may disable the the “Start chat?” prompts completely and only manually look through the emails, by disallowing prompts for short emails (max. size zero) and enabling the visible “new email counter”, i.e. option 1) from the wiki.

It’s a question of having a choice and using the best default (the one that is the least limiting and has the least bothering possible problems).

Note, that for example those that only want to listen to chat messages from accepted chat partners, and even some with short email prompting enabled, may not want the new email counter to distract them, and thus customize the default and disable it. I still think the visible, silent new email counter should be enabled by default, for new users to get to know the email functions, and because disabling it would be limited the features too much for those that want to see long emails (for which prompts should be filtered out by default, to avoid the noise for accounts with a lot of email traffic).

Different users need different things. There is no single default that fits all users, but…

One good "Listen for “Known Contacts” default preset mode has been identified, and two easy to understand alternative modes. (“Listen for Nobody”, and “Listen for Anybody”)

Together with exposing their 4 advanced options these easy modes allow for full customization of the message reception.

I meant that with that feature, there are not much need to get a classic MUA contact request popping in the chat list if you see you have a new email.

Hm, we should probably better distinguish between “listing as email messages”, silent “start chat?” prompting, and “starting (tentative) chat” right away.

If one has a lot of classic email traffic that gets handled in a classic MUA, the new email counter is rather not that interesting in deltachat. Whether there are 95 or 128 new messages may not matter. But the "start chat? poping up could detect if there is a possible start-chat message amoung the new emails.

For backwards compatibility, it would even be good to allow to directly start a chat for emails detected as short start-chat email messages.