[Discussion] Make DC a replacement for MUAs?

In principle DC is able to show mails from mailing lists, but the reply handling for them was unclear and not implemented yet. See according issue in core (https://github.com/deltachat/deltachat-core/issues/125)
Therefore they has been suppressed in the past. As I said: Older versions of DC showed really ALL emails in Contact Requests.
It would not be a big issue to show them, but reply handling would not be possible in current development state!

IMHO basic needs would be really sufficient right now and we are really not far away from them.

But as I see the development (last months): All resources are focused in porting core from C to rust and there is no progress in getting (small) new features or fixing some bugs.
:frowning:

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I would really appreceate a further (at least slow) development of c core to support users needs.

I don’t think it is worth to keep adding new features to the C core, instead just put those in the new core.
but the focus right now is to get the new core stable, if time is spent introducing new features (and new bugs for sure :wink: ) then the porting to Rust will take forever

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I do not want or need another MUA. I do need a replacement for whattsapp.
To me there is a big difference between writing an email, with sometimes legal or business content, phrased over sometimes an hour, written on the keyboard - and a quick hello or a quick foto sent by messenger. These are two completely different use cases to me, even though in both cases the same technology smtp/imap is used. Just like in the olden days when suddenly faxes could be sent over the telephone line (i am old, i know). Two different things.
DC set out to be a messenger, not another Mail client. Therefore this should be the goal, i think.
If along the way, and after DC is as good as other messengers, additional email functionality is added or a second, alternative version is made (Delta.Chat.Mail DCM), then just the better.

But only then, first things first.

Otherwise, it would be better to ask the developers of K9 to make a chat-like UI for K9, instead of asking the developers of DC to make DC a mailhandler instead of a messenger.

As someone said before, “do one thing and do it well.” Then build up on it.

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Yes, IMHO as well, emailing and chatting are very different. And deltachat is only working on building the chat side of things.

Yet Email-chat flourishes based on good cooperation with email.

There are really very much of intricate things involved in finding and improving a universal usability.

Just recently another user found a really nice way to solve a lot of group chat manageability and email interoperation problems with an absolutely non-obtrusive integration of a “chat topic” filter. I didn’t add the “subject handling” compatibility to the basic usability wiki page before, because the ideas just didn’t feel like native chat solutions yet. But now, allowing for these optional “chat topics”, some day, seems like the sought after, “native” but compatible solution.

Concerning the most basic usability, let me just point out one cooperative solution for a very basic problem, the double notifications that happen in the chat client and the email client. Over time only one way was found, that is considerably simple and can work reliably in all cases universally (not withstanding other more specific, and complicated solutions).

The simple solution is, to disable the (audio & visual) notifications in the email client, and letting deltachat also generate notifications about new emails in the INBOX (that will open the email app). The chat client is the only one that can (and already does) the distinguishing between chat messages (text and administrative) and emails.

Adding optional notifications for emails to deltachat is maybe a 5% effort on top of what was needed anyway, and what is already implemented. So, it’s rather a really cheap solution actually, considering it is providing a solution to a really general usability problem, and it is simple enough to configure (or maybe even auto configure) for less technical users.

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never had a problem, always use k9 and DC

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Let me share one more notion why I like to have two apps for my emails.

I have tons of them, and it’s really helpful to have DC that do operational tasks for me: notify and answer things I want to see immediately. Often I see a notification from DC, understand it’s a long one, and open it with MUA.

And second is the stream of emails which I manage in convenient hours and have a good mood because I don’t need to search urgent pieces in this stream.

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Replacement for a MUA only in the case if there are simple text emails.
It makes sense to use DC to give user maximum information about a mail but not to replace MUA for a complicated mail structure or even HTML mail.

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Additionally DC should get user aware of new emails. Related format user should be able to recognize if it is to handle by DC or it is necessary to handly it better by MUA.

That’swhat it want to see.

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I am content with a 2 app approach.

DC does one thing well.

K-9 by contrast does free well.

My experience with common users is that mostly they use whatsapp as the primary messenger and email anyway drops down in their priority. Mostly they have a mail app at their device too.

When I get them to install now DC and I explain that it works with email it is ok so far, but if there are any problems in using DC then they say: Why do I need DC? I have a mail app. I can used this … and they throw away DC again.

But if they can use DC for most common email usage, they keep DC as their primary email client. For exceptions they are using their PC full client or web client.

That’s it.

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