Enable "Send copy to self" by default

Hi,

I’d propose to enable “Send copy to self” by default. It is mandatory for a multi-device setup anyways and I actually do not see any disadvantages so far.

Expected behavior

A multi-device setup without unnecessary hassles.

Actual behavior

You have to enable “Send copy to self” on all clients first, otherwise sent messages do not appear on the other devices.

EDIT: With the option disabled questions like this arise: iOS: Same account, two devices: sent messages not synced
Also users with that problem might just deinstall DeltaChat again, because “it does not work as expected” without asking in the forum first.

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The reason for the current default:
More data usage in mailbox qouta and most people don’t have multi-device.

But yes you have a point here, I agree and we already talked about changing the default / detect multidevice usage and activate it by default if multidevice is detected.

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More data usage in mailbox qouta

Well, yes. But not more than any other mail client, that stores it’s sent messages in the Sent folder :wink:

There are people in other countries where mailboxes of 100 MB each are quite common. Furthermore, most users use only one device and are not aware of that setting and its meaning. (A multi-device configuration is not very common, yet.)

I once was in favour of such a request, but from what I have learned after one year with Delta Chat, I would not propose to enable this setting by default anymore.

Maybe a hint (step-by-step) in the settings regarding multi-device usage would be helpful.

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the more important issue: annoyances with other email clients triggering notifications each time you send a message. That is something that takes away new users that have other email apps already and just give a try to Delta Chat.

What is needed, IMHO, is not to change default but an easy way to enable “multi-device mode” with one click, and to detect if users have more than one device and say something like this in the device messages:

“hey, seems like you are using more than one device, tap this message to enable the recommended settings for multi-device usage”

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There are people in other countries where mailboxes of 100 MB each are quite common.

I see your point, but IMHO disabling copy to self is the wrong solution here because by default incoming messages are stored for an unlimited time. For me that does not make any sense. If DeltaChat should work with such small mailboxes the default should be to delete all messages after x weeks: incoming and send to self messages.
I actually also do not know why I would want to store incoming messages of a chat without my answers.

Furthermore, most users use only one device and are not aware of that setting and its meaning. (A multi-device configuration is not very common, yet.)

With some more thinking about it I’d even suggest to completely remove the user choice of send copy to self and just enable it.
And for small mailboxes I’d propose an auto-deletion time of messages of a few month.

Indeed, there are options to do that with Delta Chat (“Delete message from server after …”), but it would have to be enabled from the user.

The answers are stored on the device, and backups should be done regularly from it.

Some user might send several big messages during the day, e.g. some voice messages, and the mailbox is full…

Indeed, there are options to do that with Delta Chat (“Delete message from server after …”), but it would have to be enabled from the user.

But as long as those options are not enabled by default I don’t see, why space savings are so important on sent messages.

The answers are stored on the device, and backups should be done regularly from it.

Dumb question: Why should I take backups, if everything already is stored on the server, too? I also don’t do backups of my Thunderbird folder.

Some user might send several big messages during the day, e.g. some voice messages, and the mailbox is full…

Same for received messages…

So for me there are only 2 sane defaults:

  1. single device and storage tight: send copy to self disabled, delete all incoming messages on reception
  2. multi-device and storage not important: send copy to self enabled and store incoming messages for x weeks, month, …

It is important for users with low mailbox quota.

Not only all messages are backed up, but your personal encryption key, too. A new setup of Delta Chat results in using a different identity unless a backup is restored.

Hi, it seems you do not understand my point: On the one hand space savings are supposedly important (disabled copy to self) while on the other absolutely no care is taken about it (unlimited storage of incoming messages).
This is like keeping on water faucet closed to save water while the other water faucet besides it is fully open all the time :crazy_face:

I think these options should be simplified for regular users because currently it’s just nerd stuff. E.g. like this:

  • [ ] Enable multi-device support
  • [*] Minimum mail server space usage (no copy to self, delete every incoming message immediately or if multi-device support is enabled: copy to self enabled, delete messages from DeltaChat folder if older than 4 weeks)
  • [ ] Medium mail server space usage (copy to self enabled, delete messages from DeltaChat folder if older than 6 month)
  • [ ] Unlimited mail server space usage (copy to self enabled, keep all messages for unlimited time)

But therefore a one time backup after setup is enough and no regular, manual backup is needed. But that’s another story :wink:

cheers :beers:

Although I like your idea to simplify mailbox configuration setup, it is impossible to estimate the balancing. E.g., I did not know before that I would become a member of three groups, and lots of “fun stuff” is shared in one of them. Would you recommend to change settings after some time?

so far the only problem i see is that, my server is small and i tested with 4 weeks and it got full, i currently use it in 1 week and it works fine for me.

the rest, it seems good to me

Well, maybe better to have:

  • Minimum: (no copy to self, delete every incoming message immediately or if multi-device support is enabled: copy to self enabled, delete messages from DeltaChat folder if older than 1 week)
  • Small: 4 weeks (default)
  • Medium: 6 month
  • unlimited

Predictions how much of the quota will be used in x weeks/months are very hard to do, many users cannot “weigh” the size of pictures/videos, because of different compression rates/resolutions, a.s.o. And I think we should not offer such strict settings like “4 weeks” or “6 months” anyway, because Delta Chat invites to use various mailboxes in so many different ways. Therefore, a “set and forget configuration” that works for everyone is almost impossible to find…

But I really appreciate your suggestions on how to improve Delta Chat, thanks!