Option to hide "last seen" and online status

Feature Proposal
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1

I’ve only discovered this because I’ve given Arcane chat a try. While testing the app, I’ve noticed the Last Seen was showing right on the top profile bar, while on DC it’s placed on the profile (see pics). I’ve learned the last seen refers to the last message sent, but
I’m anyway quite surprised that at DC, a messaging app which praises itself for privacy, nobody has thought to have option to disable it, like all other messaging platforms, or scrap it all together.

Expected behavior

Have option to hide / disable “last seen” and active online status from profile

Actual behavior

No way to disable it

Example Images

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2

See

3

Read that thank you. But it lacks of mention about the “last seen” status on any given profile. I think it would be quite reasonable to offer users an option to opt out from showing their last online interaction aka “last seen”. Of course, it will be both way (I don’t show, and won’t see others’).

All of the mainstream messaging apps have this option (WA, TG, Signal) and I have always opted out. So don’t understand what’s the issue is to offer the option, plain and simple.

4

All of the mainstream messaging apps have this option (WA, TG, Signal)

they also much more need it as they are doing “real time presence”, so your WA, TG, Signal device pings actively, eg. every second, a server, that then pings the devices of your friends saying “hey, i am online!”.

so even if you do not interact with a contact, your your WA, TG, Signal device will tell others that they’re online.

as one does not want that always, there is an option.

delta chat does nothing from the things above, so there is no option. delta chat does not send anything special for “last seen”. delta chat only shows the last interaction (eg. message of read receipt or app interaction) with the contact. these are data that are in any case there, nothing special or additional is sent for delta chat online indicator.

in other words, if you do not interact with a contact for days, they will see “last seen days ago” - even if you use delta chat every minute. on WA, TG, Signal you would see “last seen a minute ago”.

but as that pops up over and over, it seems we’re failing to explain that esp. to advanced user

5

I fully understand the technical part of it. What I don’t understand is why is there (last seen) in the first place. What’s the function of it? Is it vital for the app that would not work without?

Lots of users I interact with daily on DC have noticed the same thing, as something that it’s “imposed” and impossible to get rid of.

We don’t really need to know when X Y and Z have last interacted with the app, while many just don’t like other to see it.. This is probably what you devs don’t understand, always with all the due respect with the hard work you put in this fantastic project.

Btw, I’ve ditched all the apps I’ve mentioned above for DC :wink:

6

One of the reasons for existence of “last seen” internally is sorting the member list. Recently seen members are at the top, so you can clean up inactive contacts that have not been seen for years, and easily see for someone who has multiple profiles which one is the most recent.

7

I get all that. But it will still be nice for like minded and advanced user to have a toggle in the settings to hide it at least from the UI (and so not from the system).

Something as simple as

Hide “Last Seen” status from UI

I’m sure I’m not the only one arguing that.

8

with all due respect, the one that don’t seem to understand is you, despite already being said to you above:

it was already explained that this is not the last time their interacted with the app, but when they sent you a message, there is no point in having a toggle for this information because the date is there already anyways, in the last message they sent you or the timestamp of the read receipt etc

many more want to see it, and asked a lot for these “online” presence features, that is why WhatsApp etc. have them after all, the last-seen info helps for example to decide if a contact should be removed from a group because it was last-seen 1 year ago etc. without that you wouldn’t have a way to know inactive contacts

also adding an option is completely useless, since as already was explained this is nothing related to a central server, but just information that is already available, there is no option in the world that can make you prevent another person from knowing that you sent them an email 20 min ago, it is like saying “I want to send a message to a contact but they shouldn’t be able to know at what time it was sent”, they will always be able to get that information, manually or via 3rd party clients etc.

on the contrary, exactly because Delta Chat is a private messenger, and privacy here means you can chat with family and close friends in private without 3rd parties eyes, not that you can hide from your mom when was the last time you sent her a message

I think the problem here is that people see that “last seen” and are immediately worried because they think it works like on WhatsApp and other people can know when they are online, the only thing you need to explain to them is that here that option works different in a more private way and no one can know they are online if they don’t send a message to them or in a group where they are (that basically it only reveals it when it is obvious because you are sending a message, reaction, etc.)

if you are using Delta Chat to chat with untrusted people you don’t want to reveal your online status, then no option would save you there because such untrusted malicious contact would be always able to figure out your last-seen, but as said, that is only when you sent an email to them so you don’t really need an option, just don’t interact with the person and they will not know, if you interact they would know even without that last-seen field

9

Don’t really want to get into an argument with you guys, I’ve only been the spokesman of a group of users who sees same things I see.

Don’t really think I/we should be explaining what “last seen” in DC chat means, as people is used to mainstream messaging apps.

But I’ve learned one thing in the open source world:

N. 1 - The DEV is always right.

N. 2 - The DEV is right. ALWAYS.

N. 3 - In the unfortunate event that the DEV is wrong, N. 1 and 2 automatically come into effect.

:wink:

10

maybe “last seen” should be renamed to “last activity” ?

11

yip, thinking about alternative wordings make sense, as this avoids wrong expectations. while “last active” is another wording, it may still be worse, as it is the view of the peer, not my own view as “last seen (by me)” is.

naming is hard :slight_smile:

more suggestions are welcome, same as if we can improve FAQ - Delta Chat

12

Kind of hard to wording as it’s the last interaction with that particular user in a 1to1 chat while on a group it’s the last interaction with that particular group. But “last seen” recall to mainstream messaging apps meaning of it. Nice catch :wink:

Popped to my mind (don’t know how feasible it is)

“Last chat interaction” for 1to1

“Last group interaction” for groups

Maybe something to start with :folded_hands:

13

“Last seen” timestamp is per contact. You can get a read receipt from someone in 1:1 chat, or even someone deleting their message, and this updates the timestamp for this contact so the contact is sorted to the top in all member lists and gets a green dot in some UIs.

14

maybe an info/?/help icon/button next to the field leading you directly to the section in the FAQ could make is easier to understand if it is confusing for many. (to justify the extra “clutter”, there need to be enough confused users; also in my experience not many people actively look for the FAQ)

There is only so much you can express with 2 words, especially if you add very specific meaning but can not ensure that extra specificity makes it to all translations correctly.

Technically “last seen” would be more correct than “last activity”, sure the meaning of “seen by me” is not explicit in both, but its closer in the former than in the latter label.

15

How about: “Last contact”? “Letzter Kontakt” in German?

16

“Last seen” seems perfectly clear and colloquial to me, and it is concise. On DC it means “last seen messaging this client” and on other apps it often means “last seen by creepy backend continuously spying on all your contacts so it can profit off the data”, but the former is a more natural English usage of the phrase. Spyware consistently uses language that is makes itself sound harmless and normal, even where this impression is unjustified. I am not convinced we should help spyware distort the English language. Let them say “last pinged” or “last traced”.

If I say I last saw Alice in the greengrocer’s, I normally mean that I ran into her and said hi and have not seen her since, not that I installed a tracking app on her phone and am stalking her remotely. I’d use “geolocated” for that, not “saw”, and I’d say I’d geolocated her phone, not her. If I say I last heard from Alice on Thursday, I mean that we spoke in-person, or that she called or texted or e-mailed me, or even that I got a paper postcard from her. “Last known” is a term usually used in missing-person investigations, e.g. “Records say she used this ATM at three-thirty, so that’s the new point last known”.

“Last contact” has a confusing double meaning, because “contact” is a noun as well as a verb. “No contact since Thursday” is very clear but long.

17

i like this stance!