"The Communist Manifesto" in xstore?

webxdc
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The communist manifesto was recently published in the xstore.
I am aware that webxdc is also suitable for eBooks and it makes sense to demonstrate this with a good example. After all, the official store does not have a monopoly on apps, but it is a kind of showroom for webxdc. So I don’t think the communist manifesto is a good choice for two reasons.

1.)
In my opinion, webxdc is more suitable for interactive eBooks.
For Example something like “The Cave of Time”. Although its cover is probably not ideal.
In addition, webxdc offers no advantages when it comes to sharing normal books.
The easiest way to do this is to send a PDF file. Interesting text passages can also be copied into a chat.

2.)
I think it would be better to present non-political books in the xstore as examples of webxdc eBooks. Perhaps a free poem or quote collection would be ideal to demonstrate the quote feature.
Otherwise there is a risk that DC could be perceived as a political project.
Since people have different political views, this could lead to many potential users not giving DC a chance.
One should also not forget that many crimes were committed in the name of communist ideology. Therefore, it is not a good idea to offer the communist manifesto for download in xstore, the showroom for webxdc.

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That’s a pain… and more and more sign of not at all good to make use of something generated in a “weapon industry”.

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Not that I’m a communism fan, but IMO in this particular case the app is there just because someone made it. Nobody made The Capitalist Manifesto so it’s not there.
I think it would be too strict of a policy for the store to disallow apps based on their political alignment.
But I agree that this could be viewed as a political expression of the core Delta Chat / webxdc developers given that most of the apps currently listed in the store have been developed by the said developers.

For reference, the app was added here: #137 - add "The Communist Manifesto" - webxdc/xdcget - Codeberg.org

And, according to the developer, @adbenitez, it’s not to be taken seriously. His message in the Delta Chat Community group:

as a joke in some minutes created this lil app with a book/text that let you quote/share fragments of it with the group, maybe something to inspire other similar ideas, ex. the same for the Bible or other popular author that a group of people like to quote in some conversation in a fun way :slight_smile:

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But new users don’t know it.
That’s fine for fun, but you don’t have to publish the app in the official store.
In any case, I don’t think that’s a good idea. There would have been better ways to demonstrate the citation function.

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i don’t know – how about you copy-paste the repository and submit some other text that is a better example? It’s not much work and i am sure @adbenitez would help in case of technical problems.

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notice that even if the app can act as an example, it is just another app that I submitted to the store, its purpose is not to be “the example app” but actually be used by users that find it useful/funny that are the reason I created the app initially because I interact with some people that find it useful

and the app is not just a book, in that case a PDF would be enough, it allows to quote fragments in the chat it is sent, that is the webxdc part

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There’s nothing wrong with that.
As I explained above, I simply think the book selection is problematic.
That’s why I wouldn’t publish it in the xstore.

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That’s exactly why it’s not good. Even if not sympathize oneself, association gives a smell and one is open for being suspected to.

Especially email use has the tradition to don’t approve ideas of plunder and utopian pseudo-liberality. They are the last having the opinion of “there should be no owner-ship” “no fruit of own effort”, although today even neraly all got infected by stupidity (blind greed and foolish selfish)

So better to not interact with people of evil and deluded views, since they don’t find it useful to be themselves generous but to use it for claiming and demands.

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I don’t find it problematic, it is just a book/document, if you or someone else don’t need it or like it just don’t use it, the ones that want it can use it, the same for all apps in the store, not everyone has to like every single app there, or? that I wouldn’t publish myself an app about X or Y topic because I don’t like/care about it, doesn’t mean no one else should/could do it, or?

also notice the app was published by DeltaZen organization, not by Delta Chat organization, it feels to me like you are demanding as if it was Delta Chat organization and you have some standards/expectations

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Personally I have no problem with it, although I am not a communist.
I was just worried that potential users might not differentiate so much and think DC is a political project.

Everything I write here in this forum is my opinion and nothing else. I don’t make any demands. That would also be absurd since I am not part of Delta Chat.

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there are a lot of “communist manifesto” apps at google play, I bet no one thinks Google from USA is a communist company :slight_smile: as a store it doesn’t mean you should allow only content you agree politically with, that wouldn’t be a neutral/impartial store and would be quite a place full of censorship of anything not in the ideology of Delta Chat org members, that would be awful.

thanks for your reply and opinions, I know you say it because you care about the project, it is appreciated :+1:

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I would go another angle and say it is not app/interactive enough to be a good example of a webxdc app. :stuck_out_tongue:

Improvement ideas for the app part of the "E-book"

The “app” in question is not interactive/good enough in my eyes to be called a good demonstation of the technology, some ideas to improve it:

  • share quotes not as webxdc info message, but as real message and let users decide what chat to send it “webxdc.sendToChat”
  • turn the app more into a good ebook reader (allow changing font size and color scheme for best reading experience)
  • allow users to mark and discuss the book inline (in the app),
    • like share book marks and add comments to selected text (like how you mark and comment text when you read a book for university/school)
  • provide the reader as an app without a book as content
    • so it can be used by everyone (maybe a short demo book that explains the app)
    • there could also be a library bot that sends you the app with specific books,
      - but the store version should not be tied to a book unless we add categories so the store so it is not spammed by the same app with different content

About the political argument

I guess we need to publish more books of different perspectives to not appear one sided, though in this webxdc store context we are a “Do-ocracy” (as long as it doesn’t violate our community standards). which means the people, that do the work, decide. so it’s up to you to publish other books to make a “balance” :wink:

(But really, we should add more books, I agree with @Raiden that it looks kinda bad to only have one political book, could be miss-interpreted as a political statement)

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It’s certain not wise to share something of hard labor to a group with wrong view, denying differences, demand others gains to be accessible for them without obligation.

That’s also the reason why really skilled hardly ever contribute toward such unless they are able to make it to a hook.

One who gives things away without clear signs of it’s good purpose acts naive and may be very sad after, when gift becomes his de-benefit.

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the app is not an example app!
you are probably aware that we have a calculator app in the store, it doesn’t use Webxdc at all, there is no need for it to be a webxdc app, yet no one has complained about it?

what is happening is that there are other reasons for you and some other people here not liking the app :sweat_smile:

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1.) In my opinion, webxdc is more suitable for interactive eBooks.

An actual example would be more more appreciated than a mere opinion, I’m sure.

2.) I think it would be better to present non-political books in the xstore as examples of webxdc eBooks.

The publication in question is a philosophical work, and an enormously influential one at that.

Perhaps you could publish an interactive publication yourself? How about ‘Raiden’s Cancel Culture Manifesto’, as a working title? Instead of criticising somebody else’s contribution, make your own.

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The post above is a good example why we should stay “non political”.

Just my two cents.
And also my first and last post on this topic :wink:

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please try to use a more friendly way of expressing your opinion – it’s fine to have a discussion around curation principles for xdcget/xdcstore submission and there is no need to escalate it with terms like “cancel culture”. Thanks.

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What specifically is so objectionable about the manifesto itself? I haven’t seen any arguments made here about the actual content of the manifesto.

The manifesto is listed on the UNESCO Memory of the World Register for works of outstanding universal value, as part of its Memory of the World Program designed to protect the documentary heritage of humanity against collective amnesia, neglect, and destruction.

The inclusion of the manifesto in the xstore aligns with UNESCO’s call for works listed on its Memory of the World Register to be preserved, digitized, made accessible and disseminated.

Suspected of what exactly?

Unfortunately some people of evil and deluded views have misinterpreted and misrepresented the manifesto, just as people have done with virtually all other important works including the Bible, but it is unfair and prejudiced to assume that everyone who reads these works share those evil and deluded views. We can and should do better than to make these assumptions and perpetuate negative stereotypes.

I think there is a valid argument that by making the manifesto available, this can help to educate readers so they can read the original philosophical underpinning for themselves and see how the manifesto was misrepresented by the people who committed the crimes and how even today it continues to be taken out of context and either promoted or vilified by people who have never read it. Then they can recognize the crimes for what they were and not be fooled by scapegoats and propaganda. In this case more education is certainly better than censorship and ignorance.

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Everything can be political. Even the right to encryption is up for political debate in many countries and governments around the world constantly try to erode peoples’ right to private and secure communication. This is antithetical to the mission of DC and if the DC project and community intentionally stayed silent about these issues because they are “political” I would be very disappointed. We should not be afraid to have a political voice.

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To be a person of wrong and evil view by approval, agreement. To be a person that encourages others to follow wrong and evil view. To act like a person who has adopted such wrong and evil view: eg. goes after plunder bodily.

Everybody with right and good view wouldn’t benefit by being suspected to be one who advocates for the lose of others for utopian pseudo-liberality.

To make the ironic here more visible, even this share here might be actualmy illegal, yet surely “communistic”…

and then the feudal-ironic…

[quote] 1.E.4. Do not unlink or detach or remove the full Project Gutenberg™ License terms from this work, or any files containing a part of this work or any other work associated with Project Gutenberg™.

1.E.5. Do not copy, display, perform, distribute or redistribute this electronic work, or any part of this electronic work, without prominently displaying the sentence set forth in paragraph 1.E.1 with active links or immediate access to the full terms of the Project Gutenberg™ License.[/quote]

Even this share here, might be subject to ownership-right, wouldn’t be a matter in US… yet in communist german possible.

This work of what wished to be shared legal liligally legal… is actually main reason for a bunch of stupidy people are holding on to defend their incapacity and lack of effort, lack of willing to sacrifice at first place.

Sure, some might not have read and considered the stupidy written down here… Yet, if avoiding to approve what’s worthy to blame, and avoid to blame what’s worthy to approve, one will not face the consequence of bad “lying down with”.

And at least: Where would a real communist have a problem if pulling this “holly book” down where it actually belongs: lower and lazy class, yet sad enough that such is already called world heritage… yet no doubt it actually does such.

So one has here gotten two “legal” ways offered, if wishing to remove such bloody red and affliction increasing not supportive thing, possible financed and supported then even by those who take such as a reason for war (to complet the “ironic” loop of foolishness in and all around).

How many need to be sacrificed that an understanding of “there are differences, and they had been rightly gained (in the past)” would take place. The slaves in this wheel have no gains at all, don’t do their task for a better, and how ever they do, meet their wage anyway. Good or bad, deluded or just honest.