Ограничения почтовых серверов

Доброго дня участникам!

Обнаружил ограничения, присущие почтовым серверам на количество сообщений, вернее на число получателей писем/сообщений.

Для Яндекса это 35 участников включая создателя группы. То есть невозможно отправить сообщение в группу с почты на Яндексе, если число участников в группе (получателей) 35 человек и более.

Очевидно, что и другие почтовые сервера имеют такие ограничения.

Это в свою очередь означает, что большие группы создавать нельзя и об этом нужно прямо сказать на сайте и в описаниях, что бы не вводить пользователей в заблуждение.

Hi. This forum is meant to be for english only so I took the liberty to translate it. Hope the translation is ok.

Good day to the participants!

I found the limitations inherent in mail servers on the number of messages, or rather on the number of recipients of letters / messages.

For Yandex it is 35 participants including the creator of the group. That is, it is impossible to send a message to a group from mail on Yandex, if the number of participants in a group (recipients) is 35 or more.

Obviously, other mail servers have such limitations.

This in turn means that it is impossible to create large groups and this should be directly stated on the website and in the descriptions, so as not to mislead users.

For Nauta(Cuba) I think the number is even smaller!!! Like only 10 recipients!! but I have to confirm this.

That is, the most restrictive mail server determines the possible number of group members…

Theoretically, you can open a mailbox in phplist or other mailing services, but in practice it is unrealistic.

I see one solution: it is necessary to set up a DeltaChat to send messages in batches, but here is the size and how often - it is necessary to investigate the limitations of mail servers. For example, 10 messages at a time, another 10 in X minutes, etc. And it would be good if the first recipient didn’t start answering until everyone got the message.

Or keep all the groups on one server (Delta Chat server), which carries out distribution to all recipients at once. And removes the letter immediately after the distribution, and there are a lot of servers in transit.

that would really mess up the things, the good point about Delta Chat is that “there are NOT a Delta Chat server”

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Groups rarely exceed a few dozen participants, to a maximum of hundred. But still it is possible and some solution is needed. Or to clean groups in General because already on two e - mail servers we have 10 and 35 participants-a difference in 3,5 times.

also I think that having a limited amount of recipient is a way for servers to limit spam, a big group in practice only means a big mess, and tons of messages

well, torchat and ricochet don’t have groups, only eye to eye; tox didn’t test

it turns out that if you do not make the delta chat server, there is only one way out-a portion of sending messages to the group

group limit is a server restriction not a Delta Chat restriction, in a real situation where a company or a self hosted email server needs a group to be bigger they can relax the restriction.
Anyway message size is also restricted by email servers in the case of Cuba (Nauta server) the maximum size is 2MB.
following your idea, what should happen if I send an image of 10MB to a group of 30 friends??? first the message is split in smaller pieces and then in smaller groups of recipients??? quite a mess :frowning:

For users with Internet access this only means choose a better server, for Cuba this means just keep smaller groups and send small messages, and that is OK since the cost of messages is proportional to the size for us.

Yes, and the size of the messages matters… and if the Internet is expensive and very bad? we also need to think of something… I think one solution is to be consistent sending messages to all group members: first one is gone - a received server response OK, then another and so on And the indicator would be good to have: 1 of the 10 left, 2 of 10, etc. So would I size of the messages received: we try to send to the first recipient - leaves - OK, next, go, stop, do not send attachments.

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Tox have groups, but like xmpp or irc without register a channel. All disconnect and the group dissapear

Probably in connection with this behavior of the servers need to add in delta.chat “setting” which would give the opportunity to divide the message by “group” into parts that is (the author of the topic has already suggested here Ограничения почтовых серверов - #4 by Evgeny almost the same, but I wanted to describe my version, I hope you understand):
1-user of the group knows about restrictions on the maximum number of recipients of the creator of this group. This could be output by chat automatically because chat itself knows what servers have limits on “number of emails”.
2-User (the creator of the group) himself in delta.chat enters a number in the “settings” delta.chat - what the maximum number of recipients can be to 1 message on the server that he uses and after reaching this limit to divide the recipient list in parts to send the “next portion”.
3-delta.chat calculates whether or not the server limit (maximum number of recipients) reaches the “group message” limit, and if the server used by the message sender (the founder of the group) is not sending the same (large) number of messages - delta. chat just sends the same message in batches - i.e. in this case you send out 35 emails, then take another 35 emails from a subscription and resend the same message, now to them, and so on until the message will be sent to all from that group even if they are hundreds or hundreds of users/subscribers.

Moreover, it would be possible to make “another additional setting” in delta.chat so that people (members of the same group from which they receive messages here is an example Email provider comparison - #8 by Raiden where 50 letters per day are just a mockery of users) act as “forwarders” of group messages, something like what was implemented in FIDONET.
That (necessarily) “only by choice” people could “enable this setting” for themselves in delta.chat.
The essence of the setting is as follows.
I read that many servers have a limit on “the number of emails sent per day”. So if we have for example a group of 1000 people on the yandex server can send a message to a maximum of 35 recipients - we get 1000/35= delta.chat need to send 29 messages only to distribute the message to subscribers group of 1000 people.
So we can offer people who know that they have delta.chat running 24/7 to forward such messages to such groups through their servers. So if for example delta.chat needs to send 1 message to a group of 1000 people but there are at least 10 people in this group that have the same limit as on yandex (i.e. 35) would enable the “function I made up” (i.e. these people are sure that their delta. chat permanently 24/7 online) i.e. we have 1000 people in the group but only 10 more people can send messages to it. 10 people can enable this function in their settings as if they “act as a relay through their server” we get 10 people multiplied by 35 messages per each = 350 messages will be sent only by them and we ourselves (as a group founder) will have to send not 29 letters to send 1 message to the group but 1000-350=750/35= 21 messages (which is 38% lower). Plus, most likely out of 1000 people this feature could include more and then maybe even, we could stay within the limit. So the message would multiply on the “recipient nodes”.

of course - “this option” should be “at will only”. And it should be off by default. But it would be very cool if the participants of the group members (or rather their devices with delta.chat) would automatically resend messages of their group - to other users of their group.

Just imagine if a large number of people would include this forwarding feature. That way you could bypass many of the limitations of most mail servers!

those who are afraid for their traffic or if your traffic is limited can be “setting” - “send through my device” up to 10mb “text per day” for example, or allow input by hand the number of restrictions - even 1mb per day - will already help distribute messages of groups in which people themselves and are members - that is, it is in their interest that these groups delta.chat were easy to organize on any mail server, of any country, even if there are restrictions.