Rename "Send copy to self" setting

Expected behavior

When setting up DeltaChat for the use with multiple devices, the user knows exactly what to do.

Actual behavior

Users do not think about enabling the “Send copy to self” setting (default is disabled) as they don’t know it is required in order to see sent messages on all devices.

Proposal

Please rename the “Send copy to self” option to “Enable multi-device use” so the name is straightforward and easy to understand. An explanation what this option does should then be added to the manual.

Furthermore, please move this setting into the “Chats and media” section of the settings. Only a few users are having a look into the “Advanced” section for such an important feature.

I could offer to create a PR for the android implementation.

3 Likes

I have been told from one of the developers - unfortunately I cannot find the respective statement right now - that Delta Chat currently does not store sent messages in a Sent folder because that would afford double traffic: First by sending the message out, and second by uploading the same message to the own account. AFAIK, there are no plans to change that behavior at any time.

1 Like

Please see this link: https://delta.chat/pt/help#what-is-the-send-copy-to-self-setting-good-for

I do not want to change the behavoir. I propose to change the name of the setting, as the current one might be technically true - but highly misleading in terms of user experience when it comes to users that do not want to read 15 pages of FAQ.

Otherwise, chances are high that users will uninstall DeltaChat because the multi-device does not work as expected.

Thanks for clarifying.

See, I did not understand your approach in the first attempt: However, although “Enable multi-device use” seems to be a better term in regard to using Delta Chat on >1 device, users might wonder about its behavior when a copy of every outgoing message is sent to the own Inbox. They would not assume it had anything to do with “Enable multi-device use”.

Well, maybe they should put an informative poster like the other options, which explains what it is when the user decides to activate it.

Still, I think it makes more sense to rename it. When users don’t know how they will benefit from changing an “advanced” setting, they will leave it at its default value which is disabled in this case.

Most users will never find out how to enable “real” multi-device capabilities, they get frustrated as things do not work as expected and are going to uninstall the app. I don’t think they will start a Google search or click through each “info popup” in the settings. It needs to be intuitive. Bad UX should be avoided whenever possible.

So please at least rename the setting as I stated above. And I would be glad if there would be an “info popup” - but please with the technical explanation (“send copy to self”), not with the (better) name of the setting that makes the benefit clear (e.g. “enable multi-device capabilities”).

Thank you.

“enable multi-device capabilities”

Sounds like a good solution to me.

1 Like

That is not very intuitive, IMHO.

Think the other way: A user wants self-copies in the Inbox. Why should “Multi-device capabilities” be enabled to achieve this?

I think most users want to use DeltaChat as a messenger app. Then, I think there’s no need to get the sent messages in your inbox - you’re having the mobile/desktop application to check your sent messages - so the name of the setting makes no sense to me.

In case you want to send regular encrypted email, there are plenty of other applications out there that have exactly this purpose.

Again - I am trying to improve the user experience, not to remove features.

Just another idea.
Why not switch “copy to self” on by default.

And switch it off (or offer this) if a user set “delete messages immediately from server”.

2 Likes

I use Delta Chat, Outlook, and Thunderbird simultaneously. If I would not enable “Send copy to self”, the other clients never see messages I sent from Delta Chat. Maybe my usecase is not equal to those of the “most users”…? (That said, your usecase might not be equal to those of most users, too.)

When “delete messages immediately from server” is enabled and “Send copy to self” is disabled, the only place to find sent messages is the local database. So, this may be no solution for me either.

If “delete messages immediately from server” there is no message on server.
Not the received and not the sent. So it’s not needed send messages to self because it will deleted immediately :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

Although this is true, …

… it does not wipe away the fact that the incoming messages must be somewhere to be read by someone. If I configure Delta Chat the way you advise, it would be even contradictory to multi-use: first come, first serve. (The client that grabs an incoming message first is the winner.)

Maybe I should add further notice why I believe nothing should be changed in this regard:

Delta Chat uses the common mail ecosystem, which has its benefits and drawbacks, especially compared to a messenger app that relies on it. Other apps use different ecosystems that are designed to cope with different approaches and demands from various users. I believe that Delta Chat never might be able to compete with the rest of messengers, but as we can realize here, it is bound to stay conform with an infrastructure that was introduced decades ago.

And this is what I believe the developers have in mind, too. They work very hard to reproduce many features from other messengers in Delta Chat, I regularly look into their Github issues and PRs, and I am impressed how hard they try, I cannot send enough :heart: to them and say “Thank you for the fantastic work!”. But because the app relies on a classic mail infrastructure, they have to take care of it. And Delta Chat is not meant to be another classic mail app, which is why I still use other mail clients which I never will throw overboard.

Of course. Your right.

I think the most people use DC as a messenger in single device mode.

That’s why I say:
“Send copy to self” on by default.
So it’s possible to use in single and multi device mode.

I know there are people out there (eg. Cuba) who have a small data contingent. They need to save data as much as possible.

If someone switch on “delete messages immediately from server” it’s not possible to use multi device mode. But also not needed to send copy to self.
But this way you can save data transfer.

1 Like

The problem w/ “enable multi-device capabilities” is that the user has to do more than enabling this setting in order to use DC on multiple devices: They also have to send an autocrypt setup message or synchronize the keys otherwise. Which is pretty uncomfortable, so that in the long term there should be a possibility to sync the key via a qr code or similar, anyway.

So, we might just ask the user when they send or use an Autocrypt setup message ("Would you like to sync messages you sent between your devices?)

Then, maybe rename “Send copy to self” to “Sync messages I send between my devices”.

1 Like

I like that!

But then, it should not be possible to check and enable “Delete messages immediately from server”. Another approach could be …

When enabled, I recommend to introduce a subfeature of “Delete messages immediately from server” called “Keep self-sent messages” or something similar, enabled by default, not possible to turn it off. Because the locally stored app databases cannot be synchronized with each other, yet, the idea behind is to prevent sent messages from being deleted.

1 Like

@webratte on “Delete messages immediately from server” there are no such “copy to self” it is skipped since it doesn’t makes sense to send a copy to self just to delete it immediately, so there are no need to disable “copy to self” it works as you want out of the box.

I agree with @Hocuri you can’t rename “send copy to self” to “Enable multi-device use” because that option doesn’t do that, just a part of it, users don’t expect that if they enable “Enable multi-device use” they will need to tweak other stuff for it to work.

“send copy to self” is off by default to improve first time experience, users try DC with their email, they have another email app and it is quite weird/annoying that you receive your own messages you just sent in DC as emails in your email app, also first time users don’t use to go installing DC everywhere so quickly, so they don’t face this issue too soon, but a way to detect multi-device could improve this a lot, like noticing new emails in the DeltaChat folder and propose to enable the recommended settings for multi-device

1 Like

Well explained, that is why I wished to have sent messages in the Sent folder where they actually belong to. But I fully understand that this would produce extra data, so I rather like to have “Send copy to self” enabled. I would not change this feature to be turned on by default, it is OK the way it currently is.

1 Like

So what about renaming it to “Sync messages I send between my devices” for now?

I also mentioned this problem here: https://github.com/deltachat/deltachat-core-rust/issues/1611

1 Like