DeltaChat doesn't group messages as before (regression)

Hello, so since I upgraded from 0.510.1 to 1.1.2 messages with multiple receivers don’t get grouped together the same way they did before. I can’t rule out it’s been changed on purpose, but I don’t think so. If the same people get an email it should be grouped into the same conversation, right? Or is it subject dependent? What changed in between these versions?

You will have to be a little clearer, at least I do not understand you very well,

Hi agutierrez, sure. So before I had a “group”/conversation with 2 people/addresses and whenever someone sent an email, it showed up as a new message in the correct conversation/group. However since the update DeltaChat asks me whether I want to open a chat with these two people/adresses whenever I receive an email.

But I think there should not be multiple conversations/groups with the same people/addresses, right? Or is it dependent on the subject or something?

Yes I understand.
I’ll see how I explain
If the other client does not have a delta, you can create new groups by writing a new email with several recipients.

therefore, for delta to understand that it is not a new group, what the other client must do is to “reply” in a previous message so that delta includes it in the same group and does not try to create new groups.

Ah cool, so it is actually not a regression but a new feature! Thanks for letting me know.

I don’t want to tell everyone though that they should use the “reply” feature. Is there another way?

Also, this explains why there are new groups every time. But it doesn’t explain why I have to accept a new group everytime. Or is that also by design, so you can have only some groups in DeltaChat, but not all, even if the same people participate?

No, I’m sorry, I just did some tests, but I didn’t find alternatives, for what you need …

Thanks. Last question, is it working as intended that the user has to decide per group/conversation whether or not to have it appear in DeltaChat?

Sorry for the delay.

I use delta quite often and I have not had any problems with this, so yes, I can say that it is working as expected.

That’s a reason why the wiki lists the general feature of “belongs to another chat”.

But this reason can be avoided with support for different subjects within the same chat (necessary for mailinglists anyway).

I don’t think asking for already known contacts and goups makes sense. It’d guess it’s one of the not-considered side effects of the ad-hoc change towards the not well fitting “show emails” option, instead of aiming towards a widely usable default, plus coherent use-case options.

So if it’s a regression, is there an issue for that or should we make one?

I hope the devs started to understand the problem. Short term, without mailing list support, differing subjects received from existing chats’ participants could maybe open in separate new chats, without prompting.

Unfortunately the past has shown that public input and reasoning was not valued that much yet. Issues get tagged as discussions, closed and deferred to the forums. Then suddenly half-baked “features” like the “show emails” simplifications came, making the overall situation worse for more use-cases than it helped.

We’ll see.

the “show emails” feature is quite useful and now classic emails pops as DC contact requests when you set email interaction to “all” that is much better than the past IMHO :stuck_out_tongue:

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Sounds like you were only thinking for yourself, and that feature is still not what you truly wanted.

When thinking about it, one sees it is neither possible any more to just browse all classic emails without always having to tap through an unknown number of annoying silent prompts, nor possible to get truly notified about all classic emails. (Nor seeing the number of waiting new emails somewhere.)

One could very probably say there is hardly ever something that would count as a “contact request” to be found when actually browsing “classic emails” -> And what happend? https://github.com/deltachat/interface/issues/5

So what gets listed are more likely “classic emails”, plus messages that deltachat did not catch properly.

Beyond fixing the chat/email-message matching, the two possible and basic dimensions that need to be configurable independently in some way to cover the use-cases simply seem

  1. Selecting a [reachability/listen-to/contacted-by] setting (More useful "reachable by" chat interaction setting) and
  2. Selecting a presentation level (email-notifications/email-counter/separate email-list).
    (A simple “show counter” option will do, as we once discussed, because “1) everybody” implies notifications and obsoletes the list.)

With this, silent “open chat?” prompts can be avoided almost completely, they are only needed to determine unsure chat/email-matching cases.

The wiki page already references all this, and questions could have been asked and discussed as well.

So if it’s a regression, is there an issue for that or should we make one?

Have a look, may depend on whether you think it would be important for some unknown closed shop troops.

What are “shop troops”? Was that a typing error? I don’t understand what the linked issue, which is about deleting mails after some days, has to do with my problem.

“Closed shop” is a business term.

Another line is:
Free Software, Open Source and Open Technology.

Outside contributions and public user feedback to specific and concise refinement topics are certainly not answered on topic nor welcomed. Even if considering them could help to avoid the next miss-by-half “feature”, so this might as well be a leadership problem or a goal behind a Fund.

https://github.com/deltachat/deltachat-core-rust/issues/1277#issuecomment-599793655

Hard to tell for me as I don’t follow DeltaChat closely. I do recognize you voicing your frustration about developer feedback though.

Anyway this bug still exists and I do think it’s a bug. If anyone’s interested I’ll be glad to explain. Otherwise I’ll assume the devs are just too busy with other things.

Otherwise I’ll assume the devs are just too busy with other things.

exactly that. there are tons of things requested and to do - we have no shortage of ideas :slight_smile:

So before I had a “group”/conversation with 2 people/addresses and whenever someone sent an email, it showed up as a new message in the correct conversation/group

back on-topic, i try to summarize a bit:

  • first of all, this only affects messages sent from non-delta-clients that are no replies to existing groups, so message having no reference to an existing group at all (otherwise this group would be used)

  • by default, these messages are ignored at all

  • only when “show all emails” is enabled, these top-level messages without references show up, if the mail is from a contact that is not accepted yet, as a contact request first. the messages are shown in the most recent chat with the same memberlist then

this is what should happen, if however, of course, might be that there are some bugs. @Lexi would be great if you can re-check this according to the described things and see if things are working as expected - or not :slight_smile:

i think, there is a bug, i also received a mail from a normal MUA that was sent to three person but shows up in the one-to-one-chat, i’ve filed an issue at https://github.com/deltachat/deltachat-core-rust/issues/1349